Visitor Comments

1. Comment #1 (Posted by Geraldine )
   I'm really confused. I read the Kollabria review of this scanner (http://www.kollabria.com/products/Kollabria-eGuide-Product-Review:-Panasonic-KV%252dS3065-Document-Scanner.html) and really liked it. We are also planning a demo of it, but whats the difference between a something like an HP N9120, a Fujitsu 6800 and the Ngenuity. We need to scan about 50,000 pages a day. I know that PPM is different and there are other feature differences but the price difference is huge! Can anyone help me make this decision? Has anyone here had a similar dilemma?
2. Comment #2 (Posted by Mike Thomas )
   Geraldine, Chances are that none of these scanners will let you actually process 50,000 Pages in a day, as you're going to max out the duty cycle and it's just not realistic to expect that kind of throughput from one device. With that said, you can consider getting more than one scanner - if you do that, I would strongly recommend looking at the Canon X10C, which like the Panasonic one here, is much cheaper than the alternatives... Like I said, I'd adjust your expectations a bit for that volume and count on two scanners - either Panasonic or Canon should be fine! Best Regards, Mike Thomas <li>http://www.shorelinerecordsmanagement.com</li>
3. Comment #3 (Posted by J dickman )
   We have the NGenuity 9125DC and it's GREAT! We replaced an older BBH Copiscan and our operators really love it. The image quality is great and the improvements to ergonomics and throughput are impressive.
4. Comment #4 (Posted by Scott Howard )
   In my opinion, in order to scan 50,000 pages a day you will need multiple scanners and dedicated scan operators. It is important that when you compare scanners you look not just at the page count but at the daily duty cycle (typically 10,000 pages a day). I recommend the Fujitsu fi-5900 and fi-6670. Regardless of the scanner you buy, you should get Kofax VRS to get the best image quality out of your scanned docs.
5. Comment #5 (Posted by Andy Reiman | Modern Image )
   Geraldine, please post the type of company you work for, the type of documents you would like to scan (number of pages per document, quality of paper, thickness of paper, age of documents, and anything else important about your paper). These are all fast scanners, but some have small features that can scan with greater efficiency than others based on type of documents you are scanning. If you contact me directly, I can give you deeper insight.
6. Comment #6 (Posted by Tom Woodward )
   The HP doesn't meet your specs, it's 1/10 the capacity of the other two, that's why there's such a huge cost difference.
7. Comment #7 (Posted by Geraldine)
   I am in the healthcare industry. I appreciate all your comments, but I really want to know the key differences between at least one or more that explains the $10k+ price difference.
8. Comment #8 (Posted by Kevin Smith )
   Geraldine, the HP should not be considered. The ngenuity, fujitsu 6800 and the panasonic can all 3 handle the volume, but not in an 8-hour day. If you run multiple shifts you would be fine, but in 8 hours you will need 2 of any of them. The panasonic 4085cw is a great choice if you can run 2 units and is much less expensive
9. Comment #9 (Posted by Raimund Wasner, Kollabria Analyst )
   Geraldine and others. The Ngenuity has an UNLIMITED daily duty cycle. You should always have a backup scanner with those volumes.
10. Comment #10 (Posted by Tom Woodward )
    There more to the count then just the scanner. What is the capture application? Are you using seperate systems for scan and indexing, etc. Any pre or post processing? How many documents are in those 50,000 pages? I would agree that you need a minimum of two scanners, but if you've got a only an 8 hour day, are scanning and indexing on the same systems, and project efficiencies and performance you could need 5. I have an Excel modeling tool I wrote nearly 10 year ago that predicts the systems and staff required.
11. Comment #11 (Posted by Jeff Houle )
    Geraldine, if you need to scan 50K documents p/day your scanner speed needs to be at least 105ppm- More importantly how are you indexing the documents? What are you doing with the image after scanning?
12. Comment #12 (Posted by Geraldine)
    The ngenuity has the speed, why is the indexing important? We are thinking about using Kodak Capture Pro. Most of the images will go into EMC, the rest into SharePoint 2010.
13. Comment #13 (Posted by Christos Chorattides)
    Geraldine, HP has a daily duty cycle of 5000 pages. It will die on you very soon. Also Fujitsu is on the limit 60000 per day. Kodak has 150000 pages duty cycle which means it will work more comfortably to process your volume. I agree that buying one huge scanner is not a good idea, two smaller scanners can handle the same volume and you will have redundancy. The proce difference is mostly about build quality, advanced features etc. It's like comparing a Mercedes with a Fiat 500. One main factor is the feeder quality and Kodak is the tops in this area. Misfeeds cost a lot of delay and money. Test all scanners with YOUR sample documents and see how fast are processed and how often you have paper jams.
14. Comment #14 (Posted by Raimund Wasner, Kollabria Analyst)
    Christos, that is a great answer. Hopefully the "sales reps" who posted here will get something out of it. Sadly we accidentally deleted your indexing comments. Would you mind re-posting them?
15. Comment #15 (Posted by Russell Houlton )
    As a general rule, you'll get maybe 50% of the rated throughput in actual use. That is, a 100ppm scanner will do maybe 3,000 pages an hour, not 6,000. YMMV. As others have said, look at the daily duty cycle. The Ngenuity is heavy duty. It can put in a 24 hour day. Some of the others I've seen can't even put in one 8 hour shift before you're over their specified limit. Also, see how the scanners handle double-feeds. Is there any situation where you may need to scan something that will trigger the ultrasonic double-feed? (sticky notes, envelopes, etc). The BBH (now Kodak) allows you to override the double feed for ONE page with a single button push. Most other scanners require several mouse clicks to turn it off and a equal number to turn it back on. Net result, you may end up running with the double-feed detection turned off. This reason alone is why my shop is almost all Bowe Bell&Howell. BBH is now part of Kodak, but only some models: Sidekick, Truper, and Ngenuity.
16. Comment #16 (Posted by Mike Harrington )
    One thing to keep in mind is cost of consumables and how long they last. No one has mentioned that the ngenuity goes way beyond any other scanner as far as rollers, bulbs etc. These are consumables and you have to pay for them. Fujitsu scanner feed rollers are lucky to last 20,000 pages. Panasonic is good, but ngenuity will last. Do your homework on cost to operate. This is where the cost is, plus the cost of a maint. contract. The longer you can run without lamp adjustments, replacing retard and feed rollers, the more downtime you save. Make sure you have the correct software to capture your documents so that you can update, edit, and keep them. Nothing is more important. If you are unsure get qualified advice.
17. Comment #17 (Posted by Tom Woodward )
    "why is the indexing important?" Becuase if the person prepping docs and scanning is also indexing their efficiency is very negatively impacted; throughput will be much less then expected and errors rates will be higher.
18. Comment #18 (Posted by Jerri Haight Hoag Hospital )
    Geraldine, I too am in the healthcare industry and image is equally important as speed and quanity. I would definetly agree with the experts that the HP scanner is not the best device for your needs. I have recently had the opportunity to test the Fujitsu and while admirable, I would absolutely defer to the Kodak (Bowe Bell+Howell) as the preferred scanner. It has a clear throughput which makes it easy for any multi-feeds or paper that gets stuck. If you are scanning medical records, the variety of paper from thin to thick to NCR and near onion skin is easily handled with this scanner. Another consideration when you are purchasing the scanner is the kit costs. The Ngenuity has an LED light and is good for the life of the scanner. The camera in the scanner is outstanding. Depending on the type of documents you are scanning and whether they are going directly into your EMR or other device for quality review - the time saving factor at QR pays for the quality you get with the Kodak scanner (far less rescans). I also had the opportunity to use the Truper scanner (small in footprint on a desk top) that scans 93 pages a minute and does a very respectful job with black and white, greytones and color, but obviously would not be your main scanner, but it too has LED lighting and the camera is very efficient. I agree that one scanner is not the answer, but depending on how your production is set up you may want to consider a large scanner with high output and quality image and definitely allow for a back up scanner that will support your scanning needs. Some of the suggestions would have to be based on your production expectations, shifts that you are running and what will happen AFTER the document is scanned. Remeber, in most instances you get what you pay for: Quality of the scanner, speed and maintenace are high on the list. Good luck.
19. Comment #19 (Posted by Christos Chorattides)
    Sure, reposting with some delay (Iam on GMT+3). Indexing is importand to provide means for searching documents. Unindexed documents will be as hard to locate as the paper ones. Also I mentioned the ability of the scanning software to commit documnets directly into the repositories mentioned and the image ingestion capability of the repositories. BTW I forgot to mention consumables as a cost and downtime factor. Luckyly Mike made this point and I agree.
20. Comment #20 (Posted by Andy Forward )
    Geraldine, we have 2 Fujitsus and achieve in excess of 80% of their rrated speed. These scanners are in a bureau environment so are kept going to earn their keep. I can not comment on the Kodak as we did not test but compared to the Bell & Howell the Fujitsu came out on top for us. Only down side is the pick up roller. This MUST be kept in good condition or replaced or your spped will drop. Hope this helps.
21. Comment #21 (Posted by Kati Ilosvay )
    Glancing thought the comments, there is not much to add, except maybe the maintenance offerings that go with the scanners. With 50'000 pages daily, you want redundancy and a technician on site within a short time to fix the scanner in case of failure. This is also a cost factor. It's not so much about which key features a scanner has, but how the different features will be performed by the scanner, how ist it built (I like the Mercedes / Fiat comparison), what components are in it. BBH scanners are know for their excellent, sturdy components, as many have already written. The consumables are also hardy, so you get more use our of them and operators like them for easy handling, so that would be my first choice, with Fujitsu following close behind. Much will depend on the paper you're scanning so test any scanner with your own paper. Demos usually "look" good but may not be duplicated with your document.
22. Comment #22 (Posted by Christos Chorattides)
    I believe the scanner issue is well covered. I would like to state that the initial investment in scanners and software is a very small portion of the ongoing cost of the capture process. Document preparation and separation may require 2-3 additional persons for each scanner operator. I want to say that scanning software is a major part of the capture process and can lower the ongoing costs if it can eliminate page separators for instance or reduce rescanning or auto-indexing/classifying documents. Kodak is investing heavily on Capture Pro but I am not sure if it's the best solution around. Geraldine check all software capabilities mentioned above and see other sw capture vendors too.
23. Comment #23 (Posted by Kevin Smith )
    Geraldine, I hope you have read these posts, there is a lot of wisdom here. In any case, you should be able to get test units of each model you are considering to ensure the one you choose will meet your expectations. I don't think it can be said too often that you really need a back-up unit, or multiple running units with this kind of volume. My first post was from my iPhone and had to be brief. One key issue is how you plan to process, store, and retrieve these images and the Quality Assurance process you use. With any of these scanners, you will need to separate Q/A, unless you are going to run 24/7, or you will not keep up, even with 2 scanners. If you are interested in more directed feedback, add another post describing what types of records and what the final expectations are and I think you will receive some great input from the experts here. Best of luck.
24. Comment #24 (Posted by Lee Nelson )
    We have worked on all these scanners for years and we are partial to Kodak. With a support contract, Kodak will keep your scanner(s) running regardless of the volume within the daily duty cycle. Your 50,000 pages per day requirement would likely void warranties from Panasonic and HP, those scanners mentioned are not meant to do 50k / day. That's the main reason for the price differences but there is much more and I can assure you that there are worthwhile reasons for paying more money for the right unit. As a side note, we also like Kodak Capture Pro and as you probably already know, the output is easily configured to simultaneously go to your EMC based system and Sharepoint. If in fact you are going to be doing 50,000 pages / day for an extended period of time and the project is mission critical, consider using two scanners at the same time - possibly the Kodak i610 scanners if you are working with just black & white images or grayscale. Combined they would have a 160 PPM rating, 160,000 page per day duty cycle and if one goes down the other is still working.
25. Comment #25 (Posted by David Houlston )
    Why has nobody mentioned image QC and rescanning? Even the most expensive scanner in the world only scans what the human supplies - you need to consider what percentage of review and the workstation(s) that will support this.
26. Comment #26 (Posted by Kati Ilosvay )
    Without knowing your use case, if rescanning and QC are big issues for you, then from my experience something is wrong. Todays high volume production scanners, especially Kodak with the PerfectPage Technology and others with VRS, can scan very heterogeneous documents with only few rescan or quality issues. Of course there are always documents that are exceptions, but if they cause such a problem, they should be handled not as exceptions, but as special types of documents. With "normal" incoming mail however, the costs for QC and rescan should be small. This is certainly why I didn't think of it in my previous post.

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